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Old 03-22-2008, 10:32 AM
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Default Effects of Levels in CS3

As I have mentioned before, I am learning CS3. Today I learned about Levels. It appears levels is the same as Saturation? After I used Levels on the attached photo, I went to Hue/Saturation and desaturated it -10.

(The photo looked sharper before I downloaded it to my album.)

Is it best to make the photo look its best with Levels and try not to use Saturation?

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Old 03-22-2008, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

Good question.. I'll post so I can see the answer.. Thanks
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

I just posted in your "Creek" thread a long deal on Levels. Let me give you a short answer here. Levels is how bright or dark a pixel is. Saturation is how much color there is in it.
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

No there is quite a difference.

Levels is a tool in Photoshop that can move and/or stretch the brightness levels of an image histogram. You are effecting the entire tonal range and either stretching out the tones or compressing them. You are changing the black and white point and then placing the midtones somewhere in that range. You can tell by playing with the three points on the levels slider how much it can effect the image.

The Hue/Saturation command lets you adjust the hue, saturation, and brightness of a specific color component in an image or simultaneously adjust all the colors in an image. This tool does not move tonal areas around or compress or stretch them, it is just dealing with the colors you choose or all colors to brighten or lighten them or change which color, etc.



Neither of these tools is probably the optimum tool for this kind of work. Curves can allow a much more power manipulation of all of the above elements, but it does take some understanding of what is happening.

I personally never use levels because I can get a lot more control with curves. In CS3 Curves have been enhanced even more. There was a recent article in Popular Photography that spent several pages on Curves and it was quite good at introducing people to the Curves tool.

Curves is not something that you can easily tell some one to do this or that and now they have the magic. To really learn it, just get a good book or tutorial and learn what each little control does and then play with those controls and watch what happens. Gradually it becomes a powerhouse tool in your arsenal.

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Last edited by r_fredrick_smith; 03-22-2008 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

Thanks! I spent some time this morning leaning Levels and now I am going to focus on Curves. Curves looks like a very powerful tool. Your description is very good and I think I understand the difference. Since I only practiced one Curve yesterday, I already forgot a couple of steps this morning. I will practice some more and then seek your advice.
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

Thanks, Chck. I did read your other post on histograms and you definitely helped teach me something. My $5/month has already paid for itself.
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

You're welcome and let me expand on my short answer above! (I had to wrangle my kids earlier and couldn't take the time).

We discussed Levels here.

To begin this discussion, I used the color picker to sample a purple flower in your photo. Here is the color without any change. We'll call this, "Our Purple" in this discussion.

Here is Our Purple:


This is a good time to explain that all colors on your computer are represented by a blend of only 3: Red, Green and Blue. By mixing various amounts of each, all colors can be created...or at least approximated! To make this the same as our previous discussion on levels, we'll use the same scale. 0 to 255. 0 means that color is not present and 255 means there could not possibly be more of that color.

Techie note: This is called 8-bit color because your computer stores this in 8 bits of data. 2^8 = 256, which covers the range 0 to 255.

You can see the mix of Our Purple in the yellow highlighted section of the picture above. Our Our Purple = 128 Red + 64 Green + 101 Blue.

We talked about levels as a way to increase or reduce contrast. Let's talk about brightness. Brightening something adds white. Making it darker adds black (or subtracts white, if you prefer to think of it that way). Let's look at a brightness adjustment highlighted in yellow:



What I want you to notice is the vertical slider next to the highlight. The ends of it range from a very dark purple to a very light purple. That's because brightness keeps the ratio the same as it darkens or lightens them. Let's make an adjustment to brightness....here's an example:

Here is Bright Purple:


Bright Purple = 200 Red + 100 Green + 158 Blue

Notice something interesting. Bright Purple is the same "mix" ratio as Our Purple! Let me repeat the two so you can see what I mean:

Our Purple = 128 Red + 64 Green + 101 Blue
Bright Purple = 200 Red + 100 Green + 158 Blue

In Our Purple, there is twice as much Red as Green. The same is true for Bright Purple! All brightness did was bump the values of everything up by a fixed ratio. Without dragging you through it, lowering brightness has the same effect. A "Dark Purple" would have lower numbers, but there would still be twice as much Red as Green.

Now let's talk a bit about saturation. (Finally!)

Saturation attempts to push a color toward a "pure" version of that same color. Does Our Purple look purple to you? It should. But ask yourself, "How is Purple made from primary colors?" And you'll answer, "Red and Blue!" But wait a minute...Our Purple has GREEN in it!

Saturation attempts to "fix" that little "problem" by pushing Our Purple toward a "true" purple. Here is a look at saturation:



Again, note the slider. This time, the purple scale ranges from a grey to a "true" purple! Let's make an adjustment and see the result:

Here is Real Purple:


Real Purple = 128 Red + 26 Green + 85 Blue

Notice that the ratio has changed. There is now 5 times as much Red as Green. If we kept pushing the saturation higher, there would eventually be 0 Green in the purple. Hopefully it's obvious that as saturation is lowered, everything moves toward grey because the ratios get flat. 128 of each Red, Green and Blue is grey...it's not purple at all!

Quick Summary

So, brightness adds or subtracts white. Saturation pushes all colors toward "true" colors or toward shades of grey. They're very different things!
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

Wow! I am getting schooled now.

I will have to print this and think about it. Every step makes perfect sense and your example is clear. Now I need to absorb this and await the "ah ha" moment when it sinks in. You must be a teacher.

I an thinking it would be nice to have a technical forum for Photoshop or post processing. Clearly, there seems to be just as much knowledge and skills required in post-processing as in the photography. Besides, a dedicated forum would make it easier to find these wonderful lessons.

I promise to put this lesson to work. Thanks for taking the time on your day off to help me with this.
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupman View Post
Wow! I am getting schooled now.

I will have to print this and think about it. Every step makes perfect sense and your example is clear. Now I need to absorb this and await the "ah ha" moment when it sinks in. You must be a teacher.

I an thinking it would be nice to have a technical forum for Photoshop or post processing. Clearly, there seems to be just as much knowledge and skills required in post-processing as in the photography. Besides, a dedicated forum would make it easier to find these wonderful lessons.

I promise to put this lesson to work. Thanks for taking the time on your day off to help me with this.
We have that now... It is the tech talk photography forum and is meant to deal with post processing as well as other photography related technical posts.

And it looks like it is here...
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Effects of Levels in CS3

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSStory View Post
And it looks like it is here...
Sorry about that. I didn't really intend to write so much on either topic. It just turned out that way. I can repost to those forums, but that would give me double credits and I don't want to game the system. If you feel they're best moved, please do!
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