Rule 10 (or not!)

PhotosbyChuck · #1 (**permalink**) 03-01-2008, 11:05 AM

On G1 (from GG days) there was a rule that if you post C&C beyond the basic "nice shot" type of comment, you should post a shot yourself. Since most of us early members here at ShotCritic are from G1, I see a lot of that habit being continued here. I'd like to offer my thoughts on it. Please feel free to add your own.

I am in favor of encouraging critics to post examples of similar work ONLY when they can point out specific examples of techniques that would be helpful to the original poster (OP).

I see many posts where the critic adds their own image that has no apparent connection to the OP's photo. This clutters the OP's feedback with images that are not helpful to improving the original shot.

While I think it should be encouraged, requiring images is asking for irrelevant clutter. It's my opinion that anyone can critique a photograph -- and that critique is subject to it's own evaluation.

If I critique Ben's fairy shots (sorry to use you as an example, Ben!) I'm going to offer my comments without an image most likely -- because I haven't shot anything similar. Adding the best headshot he's ever seen to the end of my critique is just so much clutter that actually diminishes my effort despite how pretty it is.

However, if I respond to AC's post on fall colors (again, sorry for the specific!) and suggest the image needs to de-emphasize the ground and have more of a focal point with an image that I feel does exactly that, I enhance my critique.

Thoughts on encouraging only specific examples in images posted as part of a critique?

RSStory · #2 (**permalink**) 03-01-2008, 11:16 AM

As I recall from what I have seen here. The rule is that you must "EITHER" post an image with your critique OR have images in your portfolio here. The purpose of this is to demonstrate the level of skill of the person offering the critique. It is generally better if the shot is relevent to the critique but that isnt always going to be the case. I personaly dont care about the skill of the person giving a critique unless he or she is talking about technical aspects of the shot. If he is commenting on technical aspects then his work had better be up to par with what he is saying. If they are giving a subjective opinion that is different and we can learn from anyone. We all see things differently and many things have been pointed out to me over the years that I didnt see, and in many cases it was a begginer that saw them.

I am in favor of posting an image, relevant or not in any critique that deals with the "rules of photography" or the technical aspects of the shot.

Scott

PhotosbyChuck · #3 (**permalink**) 03-01-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSStory

The purpose of this is to demonstrate the level of skill of the person offering the critique. .... I am in favor of posting an image, relevant or not...

In my opinion, the skill of the photographer is meaningless if the image isn't relevant. Worse, it takes the thread off course.

Ansel Adams himself could post -- but if he replied to my color post of an F-15 with his B&W shot of the Taos Pueblo and he couldn't give a connection between the two all he's done is hijaack my thread.

The value of a critique is in it's ability to clearly communicate ways to improve the original image...not in the critic's own irrelevant work.

RSStory · #4 (**permalink**) 03-01-2008, 11:29 AM

You have to read the entire comment not just what you quoted. If you are looking for a comment on the subjective aspects of the shot, that is one thing. If a person is commenting on the technical aspects of the shot then any image he posts that shows his technical abilities is relevant. If joe blow comments on the techical aspects of my shot but has never learned how to turn his camera on I want to know that.

PhotosbyChuck · #5 (**permalink**) 03-01-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSStory

If joe blow comments on the techical aspects of my shot but has never learned how to turn his camera on I want to know that.

Editors, art directors and the like don't have to know how to turn on a camera -- and their critiques are among the most helpful. I don't think you'll have a problem assessing the value of Joe Blow's comments on their own.

But I'm just offering what is perhaps a minority opinion.

RSStory · #6 (**permalink**) 03-01-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhotosbyChuck

Editors, art directors and the like don't have to know how to turn on a camera -- and their critiques are among the most helpful. I don't think you'll have a problem assessing the value of Joe Blow's comments on their own.

But I'm just offering what is perhaps a minority opinion.

Thats true...but given this is a site for photographers it isnt a relevant argument for your position

PhotosbyChuck · #7 (**permalink**) 03-01-2008, 12:05 PM

This is a place for photographers to get feedback on their images. It isn't a requirement to be one to join.

But at this point I feel like we're just picking nits in each other's posts. My point -- for better or for worse -- is made so I'll just say thigs: I want critiques to be concise and relevant to the original image in the thread. Nothing more.

r_fredrick_smith · #8 (**permalink**) 03-01-2008, 07:40 PM

Just a few notes.

1. First rule 10 isn't a fixed rule here. RG stated up front that he preferred people to post an image with their critique, but he left it open and did not seem to state it as a hard and fast rule. Here is how he stated this:

So proper etiquette prefers you post an image with any forum critique or have images in your forum albums

I added the bold on "or" for emphasis.

2. Posting a "relevant" photo with a critique can have pluses and minuses. Some people just want praise for their posts and if you post a relevant shot they or others may decide to attack that shot and thus sidetrack the thread. I personally think that its better to not post a relevant photo if that may be the case. So posting a general photo is less risky and shows that the person making the critique may know something about photography.

3. But there are people who cannot shoot good photographs, but who can nevertheless produce very good critiques. Some photo editors have this skill. Painters and illustrators may have this skill. So what sort of photo can they post?

4. So I think the way RG has set it up on this forum is better where its not a rule, but just a suggestion.

5. If a person has some good images in their portfolio on ShotCritic, then it would surely be okay for them to skip the regular posting of a photo with their critique.

6. If posting a relevant photo one might qualify it by pointing out what it is meant to portray and state up front if it is not a particularly good photo. I have lots of photos that will illustrate a particular point that are not good photos since I do lots of outtakes, lighting shots, scene shots, etc.

Cheers,
rfs

rolandogomez · #9 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 10:34 AM

Right now we make it optional to post an image while critiquing, but as a minimum those that critique should have some photos in their albums, no reason why not as the service is free. I too believe it's ok to post an image on a critique, but more important and image in relation to the poster's (critiquing poster) message about his critique.

For example, say I tell someone they should leave more room in the direction that a person is looking, then I would post and image showing what I meant, like a model looking to the left with more image space to the left than the right. Hope that makes sense, just got back from Chicago so playing catch-up. Thanks, rg sends!

PhotosbyChuck · #10 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandogomez

For example, say I tell someone they should leave more room in the direction that a person is looking, then I would post and image showing what I meant, like a model looking to the left with more image space to the left than the right.

I think that's perfect. If the image makes a point stated in the critique, it's an excellent add to the thread. If however the image is just a pretty picture to "give the critic some weight" then it belongs in the portfolio, not in the thread.